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Real Democracy : Don’t Force Your Belief Unto Us

“When we talk about supporting democracy, we mean real democracy.”

“To us real democracy means that every citizen has the right to live, work and worship as they choose, whether they are man or woman, Christian or Muslim.”

“Real democracy means that no group or faction or leader can impose their will, their ideology, their religion, their desires on anyone else.” – Hillary Rodham Clinton

Real Democracy – Hillary Rodham Clinton

If we people support democracy, we should have freedom and tolerance and not enforcing someones belief or ideology to others and not prejudicing and discriminating as a sign of respect to other views and beliefs.

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About Darc xeD

Sometimes its good to write a lil' story about your life, for it's about sharing the experience you have to the world.

Discussion

17 thoughts on “Real Democracy : Don’t Force Your Belief Unto Us

  1. If your God is the one who sets moral standards then the killings of the first born regardless of class and age especially those new born whom you people call “innocent ones” is morally right? You really are sick!

    Posted by Mellinda McDonnell | August 15, 2012, 12:32 PM
  2. When you say force, it requires something that is physical like guns. There is no coercion without any use of guns and laws. Beliefs that are of religion are not being force and coerce to anyone. You are free to accept or ignore those beliefs. When you say moral and values, you can know those things by the use of ones mind, thinking and observations of facts of reality. Life is a reality. Morality is nothing but refers to man’s actions. All human actions are based on some kind of ideas. Those ideas are subject to verification and validity. The belief of an idea that there is God the creator is also to subject to verification and validity. Have you verify and found some evidences to prove that? If not then that remains invalid beliefs and cannot be considered true. In the discussion of morality, there is a basic principle which is based NOT on the belief of God. That is the moral principle of individual rights. That concept can be discovered and identified by observing LIFE, specifically, the life of an individual person. There is no concept of individual rights in any beliefs of any religions whatsoever. It is, what I would like to say, atheistic.

    Posted by Alejandro C. Patagnan | August 1, 2012, 8:45 PM
    • Alejandro C. Patagnan said, “The belief of an idea that there is God the creator is also to subject to verification and validity. Have you verify and found some evidences to prove that?”

      The existence of a Creator God can be proven by reason alone. In fact, atheists already implies there is a God and then they deny it. That is why they are called “atheists” – people who deny God exists.

      Moreover, there is the “five ways” of St. Thomas Aquinas employing reason to prove God’s existence.

      It is undeniable and easily discernible that there is a Creator God. And this Creator God is the author of what is truly good for each and every human being – morality. God was the one who designed and made man and woman!

      Individual rights also presupposes INDIVIDUAL DUTIES! You have the duty to respect the religious convictions of others!

      Posted by borrico1965 | August 1, 2012, 8:59 PM
      • “The existence of a Creator God can be proven by reason alone. In fact, atheists already implies there is a God and then they deny it. That is why they are called “atheists” – people who deny God exists.” you said?

        You have a very shallow knowledge in regards to atheism, or better yet, no idea at all!

        You shove us your belief of existence of a Christian God. Yet, you can’t even prove that a Christian God does really exist. Just like others who can’t prove that their God does exist.

        Posted by Mellinda McDonnell | August 15, 2012, 12:22 PM
  3. True and authentic moral values have an objective criteria, detached of the whims and feelings of individuals. It is a euphemism to claim that atheistic moral values are flexible and full of freedom, when in reality it all depend on who possesses power to set the rules. The truth is atheistic moral values is “might is right”.

    It is undeniable that there is a creator God. It is the creator God and our Lord Jesus Christ that set moral values. It is not dependent on religion. God’s laws and his morality is before any religion.

    Religion is just a medium to communicate God’s laws. Some religion are more accurate than other religion. Moreover, imparting of religious moral values are muddled by the faithfulness and honesty of the human agents.

    Posted by borrico1965 | July 31, 2012, 4:31 PM
    • With your comments now and the one below, are you saying that it’s not the religion who will decide what is morally right? Using your own logic, are you saying that your god and your lord Jesus sets moral standards?

      I think you truly are ignorant, when you said “atheistic moral values is ‘might is right'”, because it is contradicting to what just you said earlier that “It is the creator God and our Lord Jesus Christ that set moral values”, it means that because their is a god and that being is all-mighty then what ever it says or do is right! That is why your god always call for [blind] obedience, that is “might is right”. There is no flexibility and freedom. As I will cite in my own article which states:
      ———————-
      Atheism too has its own moral values, the only difference is that, atheist moral values is so flexible. Atheist moral values have freedom. Freedom to decide what moral values see, fit for an individual atheist even if an atheist derives it to Christian moral values, Buddhism way of thinking or just plain in itself. That’s the freedom the atheist has, than those deists moral thinking that only justifies according to their religious rules and edicts.

      The atheist moral values are so flexible that an ordinary atheist can comprehend in itself and justify if it is morally correct using the power of logical reasoning, rather than sticking to religious explanations about morality alone. An individual (atheist) can balance things out if what a person will do is immoral or not….

      Eupraxsophy, coined by Paul Kurtz, is a nonreligious life stance emphasizing the importance of living ethically by relying on rational methods such as logic, observation and science, rather than faith, mysticism and revelation – a practical analysis of moral philosophy similar to Science of Morality – as his base for his own moral definition and judgment.

      That’s how an atheist always do, they balance the issue, reason logically and justify a moral issue in accordance to their own definition of what morality is. An atheist can still derive its answers using some holy books like the bible to find some possible solutions and to justify its validity in terms of morality. That’s how the atheist moral values is so flexible that an atheist can use anything in it’s own disposal, unlike those who believe that god alone knows what moral is, following blindly to those religious authorities to seek answers about moral issues at hand.

      Summing up all of these, atheist moral values have flexibility and freedom, because, atheists have the ability to comprehend, balance things, reason logically and justify without possible biases.
      https://darcxed.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/11/
      ———————-

      Also when you said; “when in reality it all depend on who possesses power to set the rules.” it really implies to you religious people, because that is the reality, you who believe in someone-out-there “possesses power to set the rules” that’s why you arrogantly said that “God’s true moral values is first and foremost”.

      If we will again use your logical explanation we will go down to this question; Are you calling for the change of system from democracy to [Christian] theocracy? Because that’s what it is! When you said “God’s true moral values is first and foremost” you just denied the law of the State you are with to prevail. If a law enacted by the state is against to what your god thinks is right, then you are now going against the State.

      Remember, we live in a democratic society, so you religious people should stop shoving your belief unto others because not everyone are religious while others don’t believe in a god [specific, Christian god] anymore. And not all people believe to what you religious people are saying against the RH Bill.

      And one last thing, when you said “Religion is just a medium to communicate God’s laws. Some religion are more accurate than other religion. Moreover, imparting of religious moral values are muddled by the faithfulness and honesty of the human agents.” you are just saying that it is possible that a religion (e.a. Roman Catholic) might not be that accurate at all. So it is possible that the Catholic Church is wrong when it said that RH Bill is not morally right, because if I do recall, the INC (Iglesia Ni Cristo) supports the enactment of RH Bill. By your own explanation, it is now safe to assume the possibility that the Catholics are wrong and the INCs are right in accordance to how you people define what is moral or not when we talk about the RH Bill.

      Posted by Darc xeD | August 1, 2012, 10:25 AM
      • DARC XED said, “Using your own logic, are you saying that your god and your lord Jesus sets moral standards?”.

        My god that you are referring is the Creator of all that is seen and unseen. My lord Jesus you are referring is the only begotten Son of the CREATOR GOD. YES, it is the CREATOR GOD and our LORD JESUS CHRIST who sets moral standards.

        If you have any objections with the moral standards like contraception being wrong, go complain to the CREATOR GOD and to our LORD JESUS CHRIST. Don’t complain at their faithful disciples, the Catholic bishops. They are just following orders from the CREATOR GOD and our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

        Posted by borrico1965 | August 1, 2012, 2:51 PM
      • DARC XED said, “I think you truly are ignorant, when you said “atheistic moral values is ‘might is right’”, because it is contradicting to what just you said earlier that “It is the creator God and our Lord Jesus Christ that set moral values”, it means that because their is a god and that being is all-mighty then what ever it says or do is right! That is why your god always call for [blind] obedience, that is “might is right”. There is no flexibility and freedom.”

        The ‘might’ in ‘might is right’ is human-might, not divine might. Atheistic moral values is fully dependent on who (a human being or a group of human beings) has the power to compel obedience on whatever rule arbitrarily formulated. In practice, there won’t be freedom for everyone. Perhaps for some who are well-connected to “power-that-be” they will have freedom. But for the unconnected and dissenters, there won’t be freedom. It will be tyranny of some humans over other fellow humans!

        Divine might, the almighty power of the Creator God and our LORD JESUS CHRIST, is indisputable. I very much doubt your allegation that divine might demands blind obedience. The Creator God and our LORD JESUS CHRIST takes into account our humanity, with its intellect and freedom, when they ask for obedience. JESUS CHRIST’s “yoke is easy and hus burden light”. (cf. Matthew 11:30)

        The Philippine rh controversy is very similar to the US HHS mandate controversy. In the US, Catholic bishops are invoking Christians’ right to RELIGIOUS LIBERTY. The hhs mandate is violating religious liberty. rh bill could also violate religious liberty of Filipino Catholics.

        If you complain that local chief executives (LCEs) like Atienza would compel people not to use contraception through local ordinances, you can also invoke your right to atheistic religious liberty to protect yourselves from many Atienzas.

        Posted by borrico1965 | August 1, 2012, 7:59 PM
      • DARC XED said “you are just saying that it is possible that a religion (e.a. Roman Catholic) might not be that accurate at all.”

        A religion is as good as it is faithful to the Creator-God’s Word. A religion’s religious leaders are as good as they are faithful to the calling and mission given by the Creator-God. Besides, in Roman Catholicism leading and being religiously powerful is a SERVICE, in imitation of our LORD JESUS CHRIST who came to serve and not to be served.

        I doubt INC is reliable. It’s a man-made religion.

        You accuse Roman Catholics of the offenses of some of its bad leaders and followers. You are committing the fallacy of “sweeping-generalization” and “straw-man-tactics”. Don’t blame and judge a tree by its dry dead twigs and leaves.

        Posted by borrico1965 | August 1, 2012, 8:47 PM
  4. Are you saying that only the religious like the Catholic Church has the right to impose and decide what is moral or not? Because if you say that contraceptives is a moral issue then what more about what some religious do like selling indulgence is moral?!

    Posted by Renee De Guzman | July 28, 2012, 5:21 PM
    • RENEE DE GUZMAN said, “Are you saying that only the religious like the Catholic Church has the right to impose and decide what is moral or not?”

      The duly designated faithful ministers of a religion, in this case the Catholic Church, has right to clarify which is moral or which is not. Theirs is to exhort the followers of which is moral and which is not. It is up to the personal freedom of followers to heed or not the admonishment. Theirs is not to impose and decide. The ministers are just echoing the precepts of the Creator God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

      What is wrong with legislating a practice or action like contraception, which is said to be immoral by the Catholic bishops, is that by legislating, citizens are granting state authorities the state-right to impose such practice or action to each and every citizen. To invoke one’s freedom to disobey or disregard such legislated practice, for reasons that the practice goes against one’s religious beliefs, would make himself or herself a criminal. It would be a violation of a person’s religious freedom which he is entitled as a human being.

      May I ask you a question: Is it the day-to-day responsibility and task of state authorities (politicians, elected and appointed government officials) to discern the eternal plan of the Creator God and our Lord Jesus Christ and, thus, to safeguard the spiritual and after-life welfare of each and every citizen?

      If the answer to this question is NO, then state authorities has no right to decide on spiritual moral issues.

      If the answer to this question is YES, then state authorities is establishing a state religion to the detriment of other religious beliefs.

      Posted by borrico1965 | August 1, 2012, 3:18 PM
  5. This applies to all beliefs and opinions, for instance, whether one believes premarital sex is not bad or actually bad. No one has the right to impose one’s belief on others. They can convince others of their views on things and issues through explanations and exhortations, but never by violent and forceful compulsions.

    That is why it is not proper to bequeath to possessors of state power the chance, through legislation, to impose the opinion that “contraception is not bad” on others.

    The First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Article 3, states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..”.

    This is the provision recognizing freedom of religion in the US Constitution. Several US Supreme Court decisions upheld the interpretation of this to be the principle of Separation of Church and State.

    rh bill is actually an attempt of Philippine state authorities to undermine the Christian religion in favor of Atheism, a religion of ungodliness.

    Posted by borrico1965 | July 27, 2012, 1:50 PM
    • 1. You are right, this applies to all beliefs and opinions.

      2. But in your argument that “That is why it is not proper to bequeath to possessors of state power the chance, through legislation, to impose the opinion that “contraception is not bad” on others.” is invalid, because with out the said bill, the prejudice and discrimination will just continue like what then Mayor Lito Atienza did in Manila banning alternative way of family planning. Now, with the passing of the said bill, it will DEFINE the “rights of individuals and couples to decide freely and responsibly whether or not to have children; the numbers, spacing and timing of their children; to make decisions considering reproduction free of discrimination, coercion and violence; to have the information and means to do so; and to attain the highest standard of sexual and reproductive health“, as what the Reproductive Rights defined by House Bill 101, 513, 1160, 3387 and Senate Bill 2378.

      We both know that the Philippine Constitution was modeled to the US Constitution, but still, the two constitutions are different to each other. Even though the Constitutions defines and knowledge the right of religion it also recognize that there should be a line between the Church and the State (principle of Separation of Church and State.)

      3. So the undermining of the Christian denominations to the State affair is unconstitutional at best. The constitution itself gives all religious organizations the right of “freedom of speech” but the constitution also prohibits the Church or any religious denomination to mingle in the affairs of the State. In short, the Church has no control of the State, as the State never controls the Church. And one thing, don’t pin atheism against Christian beliefs, that’s out of line.

      Posted by Darc xeD | July 27, 2012, 3:42 PM
      • The State, faithful to the principle of separation of Church and State, ought not to favor any religion or ideology. The State should not favor one at the expense of another. Thus, the state should not favor atheism, secularism, deism, naturalism, nor Catholicism. The state should detached itself from moral issues. It is not the competence of the state to arbitrate on moral questions. And contraception is a moral issue.

        Posted by borrico1965 | July 27, 2012, 5:15 PM
        • If the State is not competent to arbitrate on moral questions then, who define what is moral and what is not?!
          The religious people? The Church? Those who believe in a god?

          No offense but I think that’s ridiculous!

          I think you should read this article I wrote, so you should know how to define morality.
          https://darcxed.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/11/

          If you think by having a religion or believing in a god is the only way to know what moral and not is, try reading this article too.
          https://darcxed.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/killing-in-the-name-of-raw/

          And one more think, if you think that a holy book like the Bible will guide your morality then why don’t you try reading this article so just to be informed.
          https://darcxed.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/sacrarum-scripturarum-sacra-caede-raw/

          Posted by Darc xeD | July 31, 2012, 3:27 PM
          • God’s true moral values is first and foremost before any religion sets its own moral values. A religion just reflects or echoes God’s true moral values.

            I think your mistake is you equated human agents evolution throughout history in apprehending God’s moral values to God’s moral values. How human agents echoes and cascades moral values may or may not be faithful to God’s True Moral Values. The leaders of a religious group are secondary agents of imparting moral values.

            Morality is before any religion.

            Posted by borrico1965 | July 31, 2012, 4:40 PM

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  1. Pingback: The Separation Of Church And State In The Philippines is Dead : RH Bill « Darc Xed : Louder Than Noise - September 10, 2012

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